官方网址：NSQ:How Do You Deal With Big Life Changes?

Episode Transcript

DUCKWORTH: Hello, listeners. Before we start No Stupid Questions, I want to announce that after a ton of amazing, positive feedback from all of you about how much you enjoy listening to Mike Maughan as my conversation partner, we’ve decided to continue the show together. Mike, have you heard the news that we are co-hosting No Stupid Questions?
听众们，大家好。在我们开始《无愚蠢的问题》之前，我想宣布，在你们所有人都给予了大量非常棒的、积极的反馈，表示你们非常喜欢听Mike Maughan作为我的对话搭档之后，我们决定一起继续这个节目。迈克，你听说我们将共同主持《无愚蠢的问题》的消息了吗？
a ton of: 大量的：用于表示某物的数量非常多，通常用于强调数量之多。
co-hosting: v．共同主持：两个或多个人共同承担主持人的职责，共同组织和管理活动、节目等。

MAUGHAN: I have, but I’m thrilled to hear it from you as well, because there’s nobody I’d rather be doing this with.
是的，但我也很高兴听到你这么说，因为我不愿意和任何人一起做这件事。

DUCKWORTH: Other than Stephen.
除了斯蒂芬。
other than: 除了：表示除了某个特定对象或事物之外的其他对象或事物。

MAUGHAN: No, I’m still picking you. Don’t tell him.
不，我还是选你。别告诉他。

DUCKWORTH: Oh! Okay. We won’t tell him. We do have to say that Stephen has enjoyed three years of co-hosting this and is no longer going to be in the co-pilot seat, but we are both friends of Stephen, and we are very excited to be doing this together. Now, it’s easy for me to explain what I do. I’m a psychologist. But Mike, what the hell do you do?
哦！ 好的。 我们不会告诉他。 我们不得不说，斯蒂芬已经享受了三年的共同主持，并且将不再担任副驾驶座位，但我们都是斯蒂芬的朋友，我们很高兴能一起做这件事。 现在，我很容易解释我所做的事情。 我是一名心理学家。 但是迈克，你到底做什么的？

co-pilot:副驾驶；自动驾驶仪
what the hell: （表示不在乎、无可奈何、气恼、不耐烦等）究竟，到底。

MAUGHAN: I don’t know that there’s an easy way to describe it, but I — there are probably three things. One, I’m a tech executive. So, I’ve been at a company, Qualtrics, for the last 10 years.
我不知道有什么简单的方法可以描述它，但我——可能有三件事。 第一，我是一名技术主管。 过去 10 年我一直在 Qualtrics 公司工作。
executive: adj.行政的，有执行权的；高档的，豪华的；供主管人员使用的；（有关）经营管理的，领导的 n.主管，经理；行政部门，执行委员会

DUCKWORTH: So, what’s Qualtrics?
那么，什么是Qualtrics？

MAUGHAN: Qualtrics is an experience management company that helps organizations across the world understand their data and use data to help their customers, employees, or lots of academics like you, I know, have used it to do lots of rigorous studies and understand human beings better.
Qualtrics是一家经验管理公司，它帮助世界各地的组织了解他们的数据，并使用数据帮助他们的客户、员工或许多像你这样的学者，我知道，他们已经用它进行了大量严格的研究，更好地了解人。
across the world: 世界各地：指遍布全球的各个地区。
academics: n.学术水平；学术知识；专业学者
rigorous: adj.（测试、系统或程序）严密的，缜密的；（规则，制度等）严格的，苛刻的；一丝不苟的；严酷的，恶劣的

DUCKWORTH: So, it’s like survey software and more.
所以，它就像是调查软件之类的。

MAUGHAN: And more. Yes. The second piece is: for the last three years, I’ve spent a lot of time with the professional sports teams in Utah, specifically the Utah Jazz, where I work mostly with the management team there. No — nobody’s calling and asking me which players we should trade, but I do weigh in a lot on the business side. And then the third piece: I run a couple of nonprofits, the Utah Jazz Foundation and another cancer-related charity 5 For The Fight.
和更多。 是的。 第二件事是：在过去的三年里，我花了很多时间在犹他州的职业运动队，特别是犹他爵士队，我主要与那里的管理团队一起工作。 不——没有人打电话问我应该交易哪些球员，但我确实在商业方面发挥了很大的作用。 然后是第三件事：我经营着几个非营利组织，犹他爵士基金会和另一个与癌症相关的慈善机构 5 For The Fight。
weigh in: 1、发表意见：在讨论或辩论中提供观点或意见。2、称重：在比赛或活动前测量体重，以确保符合规定。
a couple of: 一对，几个：表示两个或少数几个的数量。
nonprofits: adj.非营利的；不以营利为目的

DUCKWORTH: So, you’ve got tech executive, you’ve got N.B.A. and other-pro-sports person who solves problems but is not an athlete, and then your nonprofit and charity work. Is that right?
所以，你有技术主管的职位，有作为帮N.B.A和其他专业运动员解决问题但不是运动员的职位，并且，然后你有你的非盈利和慈善工作。是这样吗？

MAUGHAN: Yes. Thank you for noting that I’m not an athlete. I appreciate you pointing that out.
对，谢谢你注意到我不是运动员。我很感激你指出这一点。

DUCKWORTH: Yes. Well, Mike, I’m so excited to be talking with you and learning from you. Listeners, here’s this week’s episode.
是的。迈克，我很高兴能和你聊天，向你学习。听众们，这是本周的节目。

DUCKWORTH: This is like a physical metaphor for non-commitment.
这就像不承诺的物理隐喻。
metaphor: n.隐喻，暗喻；象征，标志
non-commitment: 不作任何承诺或不表示立场的状态

DUCKWORTH: I’m Angela Duckworth.

MAUGHAN: I’m Mike Maughan.

DUCKWORTH + MAUGHAN: And you’re listening to No Stupid Questions.

Today on the show: How do you make it through difficult life changes?
今天的节目:你是如何度过艰难的生活变化的?

MAUGHAN: You get laid off. You get sick.
你被解雇了，你生病了。
lay off: 裁员：指企业或组织因经济原因、业务调整等原因，减少员工数量的行为。

DUCKWORTH: Your dad moves you from West Cherry Hill to East Cherry Hill.
你爸爸把你从西樱桃山搬到东樱桃山。

MAUGHAN: Angela, I’m super excited for our conversation today. I think we have an amazing question about change.
安吉拉，我对今天的谈话感到超级兴奋。我想我们有一个关于改变的很棒的问题。

DUCKWORTH: Change. From whom?
改变？谁提出来的？

MAUGHAN: This is from Russell. And his question is this: “What are some techniques for dealing with a big life change — such as moving, switching jobs, getting married or divorced? And what is the biggest change you’ve dealt with, and how did you feel before and after?”
这个问题来自拉塞尔。 他的问题是：“应对生活中的重大变化有哪些技巧——比如搬家、换工作、结婚或离婚？ 你经历过的最大的变化是什么？前后的感受如何？”

DUCKWORTH: You know, change is scary, and generally human beings don’t like change. Actually, most animals don’t like change. There is a kind of adaptive status-quo bias. Because you’re alive and breathing now, change very well could be bad. The story that I think about, thinking about Russell’s email is: I’m in third grade. And this is a, a life change that I had no autonomy over. My dad — it was really my dad, not my mom — my dad moved us from West Cherry Hill to East Cherry Hill. So, this is this, you know, suburb of Philadelphia that is quite literally divided by a railroad track. So, there’s, like, the poor side of the tracks, and then there’s the richer side of the tracks. And so, my dad was moving on up in the DuPont Chemical Company, and I guess he felt like we had enough money to move from 423 Jamaica Drive on the West Side to 16 North Woodleigh Drive on the East Side. And it was the middle of the school year. It was, like, January. Which now, being a mom, I realize is, like — you don’t move in the middle of the school year. So, I got transplanted into a new third-grade classroom, and it was like a culture shift. It was a culture shock.
你知道，改变是可怕的，而且一般来说，人类不喜欢改变。 事实上，大多数动物不喜欢改变。 有一种适应性现状偏见。 因为你现在还活着，还在呼吸，所以好的改变也可能是坏的。 我想到的故事，想到拉塞尔的电子邮件是：我三年级。 这是我没有自主权的生活改变。 我爸爸——实际上是我爸爸，不是我妈妈——我爸爸把我们从西樱桃山搬到了东樱桃山。 所以，这就是费城郊区，实际上被一条铁轨分开。 所以，就像铁轨贫穷的一面，然后是铁轨富裕的一面。 所以，我父亲在杜邦化学公司升职，我猜他觉得我们有足够的钱从西侧的 423 Jamaica Drive 搬到东侧的 North Woodleigh Drive 16 号。 那是学年中期。 那是一月。 现在，作为一名母亲，我意识到，就像——你不会在学年中期搬家。 所以，我被转移到一个新的三年级教室，这就像一种文化转变。 这是一种文化冲击。

status-quo:现状：指某个时刻的事物或情况的现有状态。
autonomy: n.自治，自治权；独立自主，自主权
transplant: v.移植（器官、皮肤等）；（使）迁移，（使）移居；移栽，移植（植物）n.（器官、皮肤等的）移植（手术）；移植的器官，移植物；移居者，迁居者

MAUGHAN: When you’re little, that might as well be a new country, right?
当你还小的时候，那可能是一个新的国家，对吧?
as well: 也；同样地；还不如

DUCKWORTH: Exactly. I was like, “What?!” You have to make all new friends. And the kids dressed differently. They talked differently. They wore all these clothes — like, designer jeans. You no longer saw all the K-mart clothes that, you know, I was wearing when we were on the West Side. And it was, um — yeah, it was stressful. But I learned a lot.
完全正确。我说:“什么?!”你得结交新朋友。孩子们的穿着也不一样。他们说话方式不同。他们穿着所有这些衣服——像是名牌牛仔裤。你再也看不到K-mart的衣服了，你知道，我们在西区时我穿的衣服。而且，嗯，是的，压力很大。但我学到了很多。
designer: adj.由著名设计师设计的，标有设计师姓名的；时尚的，时髦的

MAUGHAN: Do you think it would’ve been different if they had consulted you or — or somehow made you feel part of the change — even if it wasn’t ever going to be your decision?
你认为如果他们咨询过你，或者——或者以某种方式让你觉得这是改变的一部分——即使这不是你的决定，情况会有所不同吗?
(notes take in 2023 Jul 30 Sun)

DUCKWORTH: You know, I don’t know how many families in the 1970s were, like, consulting with their kids about major life changes. I know that happens in, you know, 2023. It certainly didn’t happen in my Chinese-American family. But I will say that when I got plopped down, you know, new playground, new school, I figured out fast how to make friends. I was like, “Oh, I am the new kid, and I have to make friends with these other girls and boys who have no real need to make friends with me.” But here’s what I recall. I had to basically accomplish two things, and then it was all going to be fine. So, first, I had to make sure they knew that I liked them. Second, I needed to communicate that I liked myself. And if you can do those two things, the third thing happens automatically, which is that they like you back. So, every time I would meet someone, I didn’t say it out loud, but I remember thinking, like, “I like me. I like you. Let’s go. Let’s be friends.” And I, I have found that to be true as a grownup. I mean, does that match your experience? I think you are somebody who, in moments of transition, because you’ve moved a lot, et cetera, I am guessing that when you go somewhere new, you’re pretty good at communicating exactly that formula.
我不知道在70年代有多少家庭，会和他们的孩子商量生活中的重大变化。我知道那会发生在2023年。我的华裔美国家庭当然没有发生这种事。但我想说的是，当我被困在，你知道，新的操场，新的学校，我很快就学会了如何交朋友。我当时想，“哦，我是新来的孩子，我必须和那些没有真正需要和我交朋友的女孩和男孩交朋友。”但这是我记得的。我基本上必须完成两件事，然后一切都会好起来的。所以，首先，我必须确保他们知道我喜欢他们。第二，我需要表达我喜欢我自己。如果你能做到这两件事，第三件事就会自动发生，那就是他们也喜欢你。所以，每次我遇到一个人，我都不会大声说出来，但我记得我在想，“我喜欢我自己。我喜欢你。我们走吧。我们做朋友吧。”作为一个成年人，我发现这是真的。我是说，这和你的经历相符吗?我认为你是这样的人，在过渡的时刻，因为你搬了很多地方，等等，我猜当你去一个新的地方，你非常擅长以这种公式沟通。

Chinese-American family: 美籍华人家庭
plop down: 扑通坐下：指突然或疲惫地坐下，通常用于形容人在长时间站立或行走后迅速找地方坐下的动作。
grownup:n.成年人 adj.已长成的；成熟的

MAUGHAN: Well, I think it’s really interesting, because if you go back to Russell’s question, “How do you deal with these moments of change?,” I wonder how frequently the piece of “Do I like myself?” actually falls away a little bit. I mean, he’s talking about switching jobs, getting married or divorced. I think some of these moments are such vulnerable moments. Like, when you move to a new job, all of the social capital you’ve built up, all of the reputation you have, you have to sort of earn that again with a new group of people in a new situation. And, I mean, if you come in with a lot of confidence in who you are, and you like yourself, and you know that you’re the right person for the job, then I think you probably communicate that well. I think that if you are trying to, you know, move up or try something new in any new situation, there tends to be — in my experience — some feeling of, “I hope I made the right decision. I hope I’m really the right person for this.” And I wonder if that leads to this difference in what Russell’s talking about, especially something as traumatic as divorce or as life-changing as marriage or having a new kid, I think it’s very natural to be like, “Whoa, am I going to be able to be a good parent here?” And I wonder if the construct we’re setting up is what makes change so difficult, because there is a lack of confidence in maybe these change moments.
嗯，我认为这真的很有趣，因为如果你回到拉塞尔的问题，“你如何应对这些变化的时刻？”，我想知道“我喜欢自己吗？”这句话出现的频率有多高。 实际上有点下降了。 我的意思是，他正在谈论换工作、结婚或离婚。 我认为其中一些时刻是非常脆弱的时刻。 就像，当你跳槽到新工作时，你所建立的所有社会资本，你所拥有的所有声誉，你都必须在新的情况下与一群新的人一起重新赢得这些。而且，我的意思是，如果你对自己充满信心，并且喜欢自己，并且知道自己是这份工作的合适人选，那么我认为你可能沟通得很好。 我认为，如果你在任何新情况下尝试提升或尝试新事物，根据我的经验，你往往会有这样的感觉：“我希望我做出了正确的决定。 我希望我真的是最合适的人选。”我想知道这是否会导致拉塞尔所说的不同，尤其是像离婚这样的创伤，或者像结婚或生孩子这样改变生活的事情，我认为这是很自然的，“哇，我能成为一个好父母吗?”我想知道，我们正在建立的结构是否让改变变得如此困难，因为在这些改变的时刻，我们缺乏信心。

fall away: vt.消失；背离，离开；疏失；抛弃；消瘦；倾斜
social capital: 社会资本：一个社会中个体、团体和组织之间的关系网络，以及这些关系所产生的信任、互助和合作等价值。社会资本有助于提高社会效率，促进经济发展和社会进步。
move up: 1、向上移动：在空间或位置上向上或向前移动。2、提升：在等级、地位或职位上得到提高。
traumatic: adj.（经历）痛苦难忘的，造成精神创伤的；<医>外伤的，损伤的；令人恐惧的，令人如坐针毡的

DUCKWORTH: So, there’s actually a lot of science. I don’t know how many years it goes back, but one of the earliest and most-used scales to measure these life-event changes is the Social Readjustment Rating Scale, and it was published in 1967. So, you know, it’s older than me. The purpose of the original study was actually to look at how these events would affect your physical health — for example, getting sick.
所以，实际上有很多科学。我不知道它追溯到多少年前，但最早也是最常用的衡量这些生活事件变化的量表之一是社会再调整评定量表，它出版于1967年。所以，它比我还老。最初研究的目的实际上是观察这些事件如何影响你的身体健康，例如，生病。

MAUGHAN: And just to clarify quickly. You said 1967, has it been updated? Do we feel like it’s still super relevant?
我要快速澄清一下。你说1967年，更新了吗?我们觉得它仍然非常相关吗?

clarify: v.澄清，阐明；（通过加热）使净化，使纯净

DUCKWORTH: Well, it’s still, I think, widely used. You know, since 1967 we’ve done a lot of research as social scientists about, like, all the complexities, but I think the major point is that there are certain events in people’s lives that require you to adjust more — you know, whether it’s good or bad, it still requires adjustment — I think that still stands. So, this scale actually ranges nicely from zero to 100. 100 is the most stressful, meaning it requires the most adjustment. That’s why it’s called the Social Readjustment Rating Scale. And then, it doesn’t actually have anything that was rated as a zero, because all of the events require some amount of social readjustment, but the lowest score of the events that were studied originally — and I think, again, these are still the events that are used when people use the scale — the lowest one is 11. So, it might be helpful just to name where these events that we’ve been talking about fall on this continuum. Like, I said “moving.” That was just the first thing that leapt to mind. Russell mentioned it as, like, one big life change. But I will tell you, Mike, that moving is close to the bottom. It’s at 20. I know!
我认为，它仍然被广泛使用。你知道，自1967年以来，作为社会科学家，我们做了很多研究，比如，所有的复杂性，但我认为主要的一点是，人们生活中的某些事件需要你更多地调整——你知道，无论是好是坏，它仍然需要调整——我认为这一点仍然成立。因此，这个量表实际上范围在 0 到 100 之间。100 是压力最大的，这意味着它需要最多的调整。 这就是为什么它被称为社会调整评定量表。 然后，它实际上没有任何被评为零的事件，因为所有事件都需要一定程度的社会调整，但最初研究的事件的最低分数 - 我认为，这些仍然是人们使用量表时使用的事件 - 最低的是 11。所以，说出我们一直在谈论的这些事件在这个连续体中的位置可能会有所帮助。我说的是"搬家"这是我想到的第一件事。拉塞尔说这是人生的重大改变。但我要告诉你，迈克，搬家已经接近底线了。是20。我知道!

continuum: n.[数] 连续统；[经] 连续统一体；闭联集

MAUGHAN: Truthfully, those are, I think, among the most stressful experiences of my life. These people have had a much diff — okay, look, I’m just going to tell you this. When I finished grad school — I’m living in Boston — I moved to Utah. I grew up in Utah. It’s an amazing place. But I was really, really unsure about coming back. I’d been gone for years. I’d lived in Phoenix, in Chicago before that, and when I moved here, it was such a mind-messing situation. Because I didn’t know if I wanted to be in Utah. Qualtrics was still in its early days. We rented two floors of this office building. I just didn’t know if I was making the right decision. And I’m not joking. For the first six months, I rented a room in an apartment on a month-to-month rent. I slept on a blow-up mattress. I borrowed a desk from my brother and a folding chair from my parents, and that was all I had. And the apartment I lived in, the kitchen — like, the stove was broken.
说实话，我认为这些是我一生中压力最大的经历之一。 这些人有很大的不同——好吧，听着，我只是要告诉你这一点。 当我完成研究生学业后——我住在波士顿——我搬到了犹他州。 我在犹他州长大。 这是一个很棒的地方。 但我真的非常不确定是否要回来。 我已经离开很多年了。我以前住在凤凰城，在那之前住在芝加哥，当我搬到这里的时候，这里的情况让我心烦意乱。因为我不知道自己是否想待在犹他州。Qualtrics仍处于起步阶段。我们租了这栋办公楼的两层楼。我只是不知道我的决定是否正确。我不是在开玩笑。在最初的六个月里，我以月租的方式在公寓里租了一个房间。我睡在充气床垫上。我向哥哥借了一张桌子，向父母借了一把折叠椅，这就是我的全部。我住的公寓，厨房——就像，炉子坏了。

DUCKWORTH: This is like a physical metaphor for non-commitment.
这就像是不承诺的物理隐喻。
(notes take in 2023 Jul 31 Mon)

MAUGHAN: Exactly! And so, one of my dearest friends — we went to elementary, junior high, high school. I didn’t know that she’d started at Qualtrics. She was our first attorney that we hired. And six months in, she just looked at me and said, “Mike, this is never going to work unless you’re all in and you decide to commit.” And so, she went and helped me find an apartment and get furniture, And signing that year-long lease to just say, “Okay, I’m committing to this job. I’m committing to be in Utah. I’m committing to do these things,” changed everything for me. But I couldn’t make that transition for some reason. So, I get that there are things that are way more stressful. Maybe it wasn’t just moving, but it was the whole idea of, “Gosh, you’ve got to really commit to this or not.”
完全正确!所以，我最要好的朋友之一——我们一起上了小学、初中、高中。我不知道她是从Qualtrics开始的。她是我们聘请的第一位律师。六个月后，她看着我说:“迈克，除非你全身心投入，下定决心，否则这是行不通的。”所以，她帮我找了一间公寓，买了家具，签了一年的租约，就说，“好吧，我要投入这份工作。我要去犹他州。我要做这些事"改变了我的一切。但由于某种原因，我无法完成这种转变。所以，我知道有些事情压力更大。也许这不仅仅是搬家，而是整个想法，“天哪，你必须真正致力于这个或者不。

elementary: adj. 小学的
attorney: n.律师；代理人
all in: 全力以赴：投入全部精力和资源去完成某事。
commit: v. 投入
commit to: 承诺：表示对某事物或某人的决心和承诺，通常表示愿意为之付出时间、精力或资源。
lease: n.租约，租契 v.出租，租用

DUCKWORTH: Yeah. You know, when we say that moving scores a 20 — and I do need to give you a sense of the other things on the scale, you should know that the way these numbers came about was just by asking people to essentially rate or allocate points to this. And by the way, people can be wrong. You know, one of the sturdiest findings in psychology is that when you ask people to predict what something is going to feel like, we’re terrible at it, right? So, it very well could be that when you’re sitting, and filling out a survey, and allocating points to, you know, changing where you live, getting divorced, that you’re allocating points that don’t match, actually, lived experience, but be that as it may, with that big caveat, let me give a sense of the scale. So, at 100, I think you might well guess this one. Mike, what is the single life change that you can make that would require maximal readjustment?
是的。你知道，当我们说搬家得分为20分时，我确实需要让你了解量表上的其他东西，你应该知道这些数字的产生方式只是让人们对它进行评分或分配分数。顺便说一句，人也会犯错。你知道，心理学中最可靠的发现之一就是当你让人们预测某事会是什么感觉时，我们做得很糟糕，对吧?所以，很有可能当你坐着，填写一份调查，分配分数给，你知道，改变你的居住地，离婚，你分配的分数实际上与生活经历不匹配，但尽管如此，我还是要提醒大家，让我给大家一个尺度的概念。所以，在100，我想你可能会猜到这个。迈克，你能做出的需要最大程度调整的生活改变是什么?

essentially：adv.本质上，根本上；大体上，基本上
sturdiest:强壮的；坚定的（sturdy 的最高级）
sturdy: adj.结实的，坚固的；（人或身体）强壮的，健壮的；坚决的，坚定的
be terrible at: 非常不擅长：表示某人在某方面表现非常糟糕，缺乏技能或天赋。
be that as it may: 尽管如此：表示承认某种情况存在，但不影响原先的观点或计划。
caveat: n.<正式>警告，限制性条款；<法律>预告登记（尤指遗嘱检验中，非告知本人而不得进行某行为的通知）

MAUGHAN: Yeah, I mean, I think there has to be nothing bigger than a death and probably of — of spouse. And I was — I assume especially so if you have younger children in the home still.
是的，我是说，我认为没有什么比死亡和配偶的死亡更重要的了。我想如果你家里还有年幼的孩子的话。

DUCKWORTH: Okay, so, you get full credit. It is the death of a spouse or a significant other. There’s no asterisk here for, you know, “what if you also have children” — and by the way, death of a child is not on the original scale, at least. So, that comes in at 100 — death of a spouse. I could imagine if it were death of a child, that would be higher than that. And then, the next most stressful event — meaning the one that requires most readjustment — it’s, like, you go all the way from 100 to 73. So, anyway —.
好吧，你得满分。配偶或其他重要的人去世。这里没有星号，你知道，“如果你也有孩子呢?”顺便说一下，孩子的死亡至少不在最初的尺度上。所以这是100，配偶死亡。我可以想象，如果是一个孩子的死亡，这个数字会更高。然后，下一个压力最大的事件——也就是最需要重新调整的事件——就像，你从100一直到73。所以，不管怎样。

credit: n.信用，信贷，赊购；赞扬，信誉，声望；存款金额，余额；补助；退税，抵免；学分；带来荣耀的人（或事）；作品（指影片、电视节目、戏剧等）；信任，相信 v.把（钱）记入总账，把钱存入（账户）；相信，信任；认为是……的功劳，给予承认；认为……有特定品质（或效果）
asterisk: n.星号；星号键 vt.注上星号；用星号标出

MAUGHAN: And people are estimating what they think this would feel like, or these are people who’ve actually lost a spouse?
人们在估计他们认为这是什么感觉，或者这些人真的失去了配偶?

DUCKWORTH: It’s actually just this hypothetical. Like, you give people all these events, and then you ask them to rate. And that’s why I think we should take it all with a grain of salt. But, guess what’s number two? So, it’s a score of 73 on a scale from zero to 100.
这实际上只是一个假设。比如，你给人们所有这些事件，然后让他们打分。这就是为什么我认为我们应该对这一切持保留态度。但是，猜猜第二个是什么?所以，在0到100的范围内，这是73分。

hypothetical: adj.（基于）假设的，假定的 n.假设命题，假设陈述
a grain of salt: 一粒盐：表示对某事或某人的言论持怀疑态度，不完全相信。

MAUGHAN: I would guess that, uh, marriage or divorce? I mean, marriage is weirdly stressful when you’re bringing two lives together. So, I don’t know, marriage and/or divorce?
我猜，结婚还是离婚?我是说，当你把两种生活结合在一起的时候，婚姻是很有压力的。所以，我不知道，结婚或者离婚?

weirdly: adv.古怪地

DUCKWORTH: By the way, I told you about Cherry Hill. Well, on the West Side of Cherry Hill — at least in the ’70s and ’80s, there was this, like, strip shopping center. You know, we have all these little ugly, you, like, pull off the highway and they’re these, like, six stores.
顺便说一下，我跟你说过樱桃山。在樱桃山的西侧——至少在七八十年代的时候，有这样一个购物中心。你知道，我们有很多丑陋的小商店，你把车停在高速公路上，它们有六家商店。
(notes take in 2023 Aug 1 Tue)

MAUGHAN: Once again, great ambassador for Filthadelphia.
再一次，伟大的费城大使

DUCKWORTH: This is the suburbs of Filthadelphia! Um, and on one end of this shopping strip was a divorce lawyer, and on the other end was, like, a wedding gown thing. And I just thought, you know, depending on what you needed —.
这里是费城的郊区!购物街的一头是离婚律师，另一头是卖婚纱的。我只是想，你知道，这取决于你需要什么。

MAUGHAN: And the wedding gown people was a lead generator for the divorce guys. Like, “Hey, in five years, call these people.”
穿婚纱的人是离婚的人的主要来源。比如，“嘿，五年后，给这些人打电话。”

DUCKWORTH: Some real synergy! Get the card of one when you go to the other! But, okay, so divorce comes in at 73, and marriage comes in at 50.
一些真正的协同作用!当你去另一个的时候，拿一个的卡!离婚是73分，结婚是50分。

synergy: n.（两个或多个组织共同协作后产生的）协同增效作用，协同作用

MAUGHAN: Wait, but are those the top three?
等等，这是前三名吗?

DUCKWORTH: No.
不是

MAUGHAN: Oh. I thought I got it right.
哦。我以为我做对了。

DUCKWORTH: Death of a spouse at 100, divorce at 73, marital separation at 65. So, I think that’s you know — that’s the prequel to divorce, right? At number four is jail term, at 63.
丧偶是100分，离婚是73分，分居是65分。所以，我认为这是离婚的前传，对吧?排名第四的是刑期，63分。

marital: adj.婚姻的，夫妻关系的
prequel: n.（书或电影的）先行篇，前篇
term: n.（某人做某事或某事发生的）时期，期限，任期；学期，开庭期；到期，期满；

MAUGHAN: Jail term. Your own? Or that of a —.
刑期。 你自己？ 或者是一个——。

DUCKWORTH: I assume your own jail term. I assume this means, like, being incarcerated.
我想是你自己的刑期吧。我猜这意味着，被关起来。

incarcerated: adj.箝闭的 v.监禁（incarcerate 的过去式）；下狱
incarcerate: vt.监禁；下狱；禁闭 adj.监禁的；禁闭的

MAUGHAN: I mean, that would be very stressful.
我是说，那样压力会很大。

DUCKWORTH: Yeah. But apparently not as stressful as getting divorced, according to this self-report. But, you know, these are all clustered together.
是的。但根据这份自我报告，显然没有离婚那么有压力。但是，你知道，这些都是聚集在一起的。

cluster together: 聚集在一起：指一群人或物体紧密地聚集在一起。

MAUGHAN: Okay. But wait, let me ask about that, because I, I wonder — again, you’re the psychologist here — do you think maybe part of why jail term is lower is that, if you still have family, and relationships, and support, then you can kind of get through anything. What are your thoughts there?
好吧。但是等等，让我问一下这个问题，因为我想知道——再说一次，你是这里的心理学家——你是否认为可能刑期较低的部分原因是，如果你仍然有家人，有关系，有支持，那么你就可以度过任何难关。你是怎么想的?

DUCKWORTH: I think that when most people are filling out a survey where they think for, like, 10 milliseconds about how stressful it would be to be in jail — I mean, honestly, I don’t know, because I would’ve given that, like, close to 100. I think I can’t imagine having done something that would land me in jail. That’s probably the most stressful part of the whole thought exercise. But, I don’t know. I don’t know what goes through someone’s head when they’re allocating stress points to something that is really hypothetical, right, for the large majority of these survey respondents, one can imagine.
我想当大多数人在填写调查问卷时，他们会花大约10毫秒来思考在监狱里会有多大的压力——我的意思是，老实说，我不知道，因为我会给出接近100毫秒的答案。我想我无法想象我做了什么会让我进监狱的事。这可能是整个思维练习中压力最大的部分。但是，我不知道。我不知道当一个人把压力点分配给一个假设的东西时，他们的脑子里是怎么想的，对大多数调查对象来说，你可以想象得到。

millisecond: n.毫秒，千分之一秒
land in: 陷入：意味着进入一个困境或不幸的境地。
go through: 1．仔细检查或审查：对某物进行详细的检查或审查。2．经历：经历某种情况或经历某种感受。

MAUGHAN: And you can also think through, what — now we’re going down a weird rabbit hole — but, “What am I going to jail for?” You look at Martha Stewart or Elizabeth Holmes, their jail term, while not delightful, was in a low-security prison where I think Martha Stewart was doing, like, gardening classes in jail.
你也可以仔细想想，现在我们陷入了一个奇怪的兔子洞，但是，“我为什么要进监狱?”你看看玛莎·斯图尔特和伊丽莎白·霍姆斯，她们的刑期，虽然不太愉快，但在一个低安全级别的监狱里，我想玛莎·斯图尔特在监狱里上园艺课。

think through: 仔细考虑：对某个问题或计划进行深入思考，以确保所有方面都被充分考虑。

DUCKWORTH: Why does everyone still — I mean, I don’t hate Martha Stewart, but it’s interesting that we have, like, what, completely forgiven Martha Stewart for — I don’t even remember what she did. Did she do inside trading?
为什么每个人仍然——我的意思是，我不讨厌玛莎·斯图尔特，但有趣的是，我们已经完全原谅了玛莎·斯图尔特——我甚至不记得她做了什么。她做过内幕交易吗?

MAUGHAN: I think it was insider trading. The thing about Martha Stewart that’s really interesting is she has continued to evolve her brand constantly. I think she’s very smart, very savvy. She is the ultimate homemaker who went from that sort of brand to partnering with Snoop Dogg — to now she, you know, goes on these comedy shows with kind of racy jokes and stuff like that. And she’s sort of evolved her brand to be edgy now to fit the culture of today. And I think someone who can continually evolve themselves — somehow we forgive them and say, “Okay, they’re still cool.” Or maybe they’re just developing a brand-new audience.
我认为这是内幕交易。玛莎·斯图尔特非常有趣的一点是，她一直在不断地发展自己的品牌。我觉得她很聪明，很精明。她是终极的家庭主妇，从那种品牌发展到与史努比狗狗合作，到现在，你知道，她参加这些喜剧节目，讲一些下流的笑话之类的东西。她把自己的品牌发展得更前卫，以适应当今的文化。我认为那些能够不断自我进化的人——不知何故，我们原谅了他们，说:“好吧，他们仍然很酷。”或者他们只是在开发一个全新的用户群。

savvy: n.<非正式>实际知识，悟性 v.理解，懂 adj.<非正式>聪慧的，有经验的
homemaker: n.主妇
racy: adj.生动的；保持原味的；适于赛跑的；猥亵的
edgy: adj.尖利的；紧张的，烦躁不安的；（演奏或文字作品）尖锐的，强烈的；（电影、书籍等）激动人心的；前卫的，尖端的，先进的

(notes take in 2023 Aug 2 Wed)

DUCKWORTH: Maybe what Martha Stewart exemplifies is actually social readjustment, right? This is the “Social Readjustment Rating Scale.” Like, here are events that require you to readjust, and maybe Martha Stewart is a paragon of being able to do that. And actually she did, I think, lose her husband many years ago. And she can check off on this list that she has also been incarcerated. Pregnancy comes in at 40 points. So, it’s 12th on the list. She’s actually accomplished a lot of these transitions. And maybe she’d be the best person to ask. But in lieu of Martha Stewart, I want to hear from our listeners. I want to know what their story is of a big life change that they’ve dealt with. How did you handle this transition? What was it? We, of course, want to know your name and where you’re from. Record in a quiet place. Put your mouth close to your phone, and email NSQ@freakonomics.com and maybe we will play your life transition story on a future episode of the show.
也许玛莎·斯图尔特所体现的实际上是社会调整，对吧？ 这就是“社会调整评定量表”。 比如，有些事情需要你重新调整，也许玛莎·斯图尔特就是能够做到这一点的典范。 事实上，我认为她很多年前就失去了丈夫。 她可以在这份名单上核对她也被监禁过。 怀孕是40分。 所以，它在名单上排在第12位。 她实际上已经完成了很多这样的转变。 也许她是最好的提问者。但我想代替玛莎·斯图尔特，听听听众的意见。 我想知道他们经历过的人生重大转变的故事。 您是如何应对这一转变的？ 是什么？ 我们当然想知道您的名字和来自哪里。 在安静的地方录制。 把你的嘴靠近你的手机，发送电子邮件至 NSQ@freakonomics.com，也许我们会在节目的未来剧集中播放你的人生转变故事

exemplify: v.是……的典范；举例说明
paragon: n.完美典范，尽善尽美的人（或物）；（100克拉以上的）无暇钻石
lieu: n.替代；场所
in lieu of: 代替：用于表示用一种事物来替代另一种事物

Still to come on No Stupid Questions: Mike and Angela discuss how to deal with significant life changes that feel uniquely unfair.
《没有愚蠢的问题》即将播出：迈克和安吉拉讨论如何应对那些感觉特别不公平的重大生活变化。

DUCKWORTH: “I can’t figure it out. Like, this doesn’t add up.”
我想不明白。比如，这说不通

it doesn’t add up: 这说不通

Now, back to Angela and Mike’s conversation about the best ways to handle major life transitions.

DUCKWORTH: I will say that what psychology has to offer in terms of practical advice on how to navigate these changes — whether they’re moving, divorce, or actually death of a loved one — there are two things that you want to do: benefit-finding and sense-making. So, benefit-finding is often advice given in the wake of negative life transitions that kind of happen to you — things that are imposed upon you against your will. Moving, at least for my dad, was a voluntary choice. I guess you could say moving was imposed on me because I was in third grade. But the benefit-finding thing is: whether you had responsibility for the transition or not, you find a silver lining. The most common, I think, is to say that you learn something. So, I say I learned how to make new friends from having to move from West Cherry Hill to East Cherry Hill. And there could be other benefits, but in research on how people process or think about major life events, there was a paper that came out just, uh, 2022 called “Stability and Change of Perceived Characteristics of Major Life Events.” These researchers found that when you ask people about a certain big life event, but you ask them about it again, and again, and again, over time —.
我想说的是，对于如何应对这些变化——无论是搬家、离婚，还是亲人去世——心理学所能提供的实用建议有两件事你要做:发现好处和理解意义。因此，发现好处通常是在你发生负面生活转变之后给出的建议——那些违背你意愿强加给你的事情。 搬家，至少对我父亲来说，是一个自愿的选择。 我想你可能会说搬家是强加给我的，因为我才三年级。 但发现好处的是：无论你是否对转变负有责任，你都会找到一线希望。我认为最常见的说法是，你学到了一些东西。所以，我说我从西樱桃山搬到东樱桃山学会了如何结交新朋友。可能还有其他好处，但在研究人们如何处理或思考重大生活事件时，2022年发表了一篇论文，题为《重大生活事件感知特征的稳定性和变化》这些研究人员发现，当你问人们关于某个重大生活事件的问题，但你一遍又一遍地问他们，随着时间的推移。

navigate: v.导航，引路；航行于，横渡；穿过，穿越；驾驶，操纵；浏览；（有效地）处理；(鱼、动物或昆虫)找到正确的行动方向；绕过
impose on: 强加于：把某事物强行加在某人或某事物上，通常指不受欢迎的事物。
silver lining: 一线希望：一个不幸或困难的情况中的积极或希望的方面。

MAUGHAN: You mean over the years?
你是说随着几年过去？

(notes take in 2023 Aug 4 Fri)

DUCKWORTH: I think it was over one year, and they asked people five times over that one year to think about this life event again. The thing that they noted was that over time the extent to which these people thought, “You know what? That really changed the way I look at the world” — that increased. And it was notable because, like, they asked lots of questions, you know: “Was this positive? Was it negative?” Et cetera. But the idea that this major life event — like, I’m telling you about moving in third grade. That’s quite some time ago. And I’m telling you that it changed the way I think about meeting people, you know, my way of operating with strangers and a new culture. Like, that is consistent with this research, which suggests that one way that we find benefits in transitions is to learn something about the world and ourselves that we didn’t know before.
我想已经过去一年多了，他们在那一年里五次要求人们再次思考这个人生事件。 他们注意到，随着时间的推移，这些人在多大程度上会想：“你知道吗？ 这确实改变了我看待世界的方式”——这种变化有所增加。 值得注意的是，他们问了很多问题，你知道：“这是积极的吗？ 是负面的吗？” 等等。但是生活中的重大事件，比如，我告诉你在三年级搬家。那是很久以前的事了。我要告诉你的是，它改变了我与人交往的方式，改变了我与陌生人和新文化相处的方式。就像，这与这项研究是一致的，这表明我们在转变中找到好处的一种方式是了解到一些我们以前不知道的关于这个世界和我们自己的东西。

MAUGHAN: Okay, so, I think this is fascinating. Looking back, we’re sort of reliving the memory, right? And it sounds like we just reframe how we experience the change. Is that a way to say it?
好吧，我觉得这很有趣。回顾过去，我们是在重温那段记忆，对吧?听起来我们只是重新定义了我们体验变化的方式。你是这么说的吗?

relive: vt.再体验 vi.复活；再生
reframe: v.给（图片、照片）换框，重新装裱；再构造（图画、照片等）；全新地拟定（或表达）（话语、概念或计划）

DUCKWORTH: I think the idea is that when you are processing a major life transition — and again, when people talk about benefit-finding and sense-making, they often are talking about what do you do to make something good out of something bad, because these life transitions aren’t all bad. Hopefully, we generally think of marriage as a good thing and, like, having a child. There are positive changes, but usually when people talk about benefit-finding and sense-making, we say this with urgency because we’re talking about a negative event. And it is flipping the script, but it’s more than just reframing it in your mind. It’s actually literally finding some benefit. Like, now you have the mindset that you’re looking for benefits in all of your life changes. You’re looking for the silver lining, but then you find the silver lining. It’s not just a mindset shift. The mindset shift is supposed to lead to actual benefits. This idea of benefit-finding sounds kind of Pollyanna. I mean, especially if you really are dealing with something which is terrible, you know, not just divorce, which I think for many people is terrible even if they want one, but certainly, you know, loss of a spouse — it’s nevertheless true that people find some silver lining in those clouds. And sometimes this is called Post-Traumatic Growth. Even in the wake of trauma, we can find things that we didn’t have before. You know, new friendships, deeper friendships, new understanding of selves and so forth.
我认为这个想法是，当你正在经历人生的重大转变时——同样，当人们谈论好处发现和意义创造时，他们经常谈论的是你做了什么才能把坏事变成好事，因为这些生活的转变并不都是坏事。 希望我们普遍认为婚姻是一件好事，就像生孩子一样。有积极的变化，但通常当人们谈论寻找好处和创造意义时，我们说得很紧急，因为我们谈论的是一个消极的事件。这是在逆转局势，但这不仅仅是在你的脑海中重新构思。它实际上是在寻找一些好处。比如，现在你有了一种心态，你在寻找生活中所有变化的好处。你一直在寻找一线希望，但后来你找到了一线希望。这不仅仅是一种心态的转变。心态的转变应该会带来实际的好处。这种寻找好处的想法听起来有点盲目乐观。我的意思是，尤其是当你真的在处理一些很糟糕的事情时，不仅仅是离婚，我认为对很多人来说，离婚是很糟糕的，即使他们想要离婚，但当然，你知道，失去配偶——尽管如此，人们还是会在乌云中找到一线希望。有时这被称为创伤后成长。即使在创伤之后，我们也能找到以前没有的东西。你知道，新的友谊，更深的友谊，对自我的新理解等等。

flip the script: 改变剧本：突然改变计划或行为方式，通常是为了改善结果或逆转预期的局势。
Pollyanna: n.盲目乐观的人
traumatic: adj.（经历）痛苦难忘的，造成精神创伤的；<医>外伤的，损伤的；令人恐惧的，令人如坐针毡的
in the wake of: 在......之后：指在某个事件或情况之后紧接着发生或出现。
trauma: n.痛苦经历，挫折；精神创伤，心理创伤；损伤，外伤；不安，震惊，痛苦
and so forth: 等等：表示类似事物或行为的连续，用于列举时省略其他相似的事物或行为。

MAUGHAN: So, what I think is really fascinating about this — there’s a guy named Bruce Feiler and he wrote a book called Life Is in the Transitions: Mastering Change at Any Age. And he basically crisscrossed the United States for a year or two and just collected hundreds of stories from people who had been through a major life change, whether that was losing a job, losing a loved one, changing careers.
所以，我认为这一点非常吸引人——有一个叫布鲁斯·费勒的人，他写了一本书，叫做《生活在转变中:在任何年龄掌握变化》。他花了一两年的时间走遍了美国，收集了数百个经历了重大人生变化的人的故事，无论是失去工作，失去亲人，还是改变职业。

crisscross: v.在……上构成十字形图案；多次往返于，来回奔波于；（在……内）纵横交错，交叉；贯穿

DUCKWORTH: And he’s a, a journalist?
他是记者吗?

MAUGHAN: He’s written three New York Times bestselling books.
他写了三本《纽约时报》畅销书。

bestselling: adj.畅销的

DUCKWORTH: Okay, so he’s a writer.
好吧，他是个作家。

(notes take in 2023 Aug 5 Sat)

MAUGHAN: And so, he gathered all these stories — again, everything from getting sober or just looking for a fresh start to some of these things you talked about on the Social Readjustment Scale. And he even went through this idea of voluntary versus involuntary. Voluntary: you leave a bad marriage, you start a new company. Involuntary: you get laid off, you get sick.
因此，他收集了所有这些故事——同样，从戒酒或只是寻找一个新的开始，到你谈到的在社会调整量表上的一些事情。 他甚至经历了自愿与非自愿的想法。 自愿：你离开了一段糟糕的婚姻，你创办了一家新公司。 非自愿：你被解雇了，你生病了。

sober: adj.未喝醉的，清醒的；严肃的，冷静的；素淡的，朴素的 v.（使）变得持重，变得冷静；（使）醒酒，（使）清醒

DUCKWORTH: Your dad moves you from West Cherry Hill to East Cherry Hill. I don’t know if that was in the book.
你爸爸把你从西樱桃山搬到东樱桃山。我不知道书上有没有写。

MAUGHAN: It was not, but he talks about these massive life disruptions as “lifequakes.”
没有，但他把这些大规模的生活中断称为“生活地震”。

disruptions: 破坏，毁坏；分裂，瓦解（disruption 的复数）

DUCKWORTH: Ooh, that’s cute. “Lifequakes.” Sounds like a cereal.
哦，真可爱。“Lifequakes。”听起来像麦片。

cereal: n.谷类食物；谷类植物，谷物 adj.谷类的；谷类制成的

MAUGHAN: That doesn’t sound like a good cereal. But here’s one thing I thought was so interesting. He says, whether it’s a voluntary change or an involuntary change, what he found was a little bit what you’re talking about — that regardless of the change, you are responsible for the transition. And the people that owned that and said, whether this happened to me or I created the change, if they felt that they personally were responsible for the transition, then they had a much better experience with the change. And maybe that’s similar to benefit-finding. What are your thoughts there?
听起来不像是好麦片。但有一件事我觉得很有趣。他说，无论是自愿的改变还是非自愿的改变，他发现的是你所说的一点，不管改变是什么，你都要对转变负责。那些拥有这些的人说，不管这是发生在我身上的还是我创造的改变，如果他们觉得他们个人对转变负有责任，那么他们对改变的体验就会更好。也许这类似于寻找好处。你是怎么想的?

DUCKWORTH: To be clear, the proposal is that you don’t take responsibility for the event, but you take responsibility for your response to the event, right?
明确地说，这个建议是你不为事件负责，但你为你对事件的反应负责，对吧?

MAUGHAN: Yes, 100 percent.
是的，超级正确。

DUCKWORTH: I love that because, like you, I love me some agency. I really think that feeling like you’re the subject of the sentence in your life and not the object of the sentence, right? Like, what’s the verb going to be? You decide. I think that’s a, a very adaptive way of approaching pretty much everything. And I think the distinction between taking responsibility for the event happening to you — which in many cases, not all, it’s really not your fault — but what you do with it and feeling like your responsibility then starts with how you’re going to manage it, learn from it, find benefits, or make sense of it — which we should talk about that, too, because sense-making and benefit-finding are not the same thing. I love this agentic view. It sounds like his journalistic research is pretty lined up with the more scientific perspective on this, because both benefit-finding and sense-making are agentic.
我喜欢这个，因为像你一样，我也喜欢我某些主观。我真的觉得那感觉就像你是生活中这句话的主语，而不是这句话的宾语，对吗？ 比如，动词会是什么？ 你决定。我认为这是一种非常适应性的方式来处理几乎所有事情。我认为对发生在你身上的事件负责——在很多情况下，不是全部，这真的不是你的错——之间的区别是你如何处理它和感觉自己有责任，然后开始于你将如何管理 它，从中学习，发现好处，或者理解它——我们也应该谈论这一点，因为意义建构和发现利益不是一回事。 我喜欢这种主观的观点。 听起来他的新闻研究与更科学的观点非常一致，因为好处发现和意义建构都是主观性的。

agentic: adj.代理的，像代理人的；（心理学）代理人的，服从权威的；（心理学）与表现或地位有关的；（心理学）主体的

MAUGHAN: So, talk more about sense-making. I mean how — how do you make sense of your spouse cheated on you and now you’re being divorced, or how do you make sense of getting fired?
所以，我们来谈谈意义的构建。我的意思是，你怎么对你的配偶背叛了你创造意义，现在你离婚了，或者你怎么能对被解雇了创造意义?

DUCKWORTH: So, the difference between benefit-finding and sense-making to me was, T.B.H., a little blurry for a while. I’m like, “Isn’t that the same thing? But actually, what sense-making is, I think, is recovering from cognitive dissonance. So, one thing that happens in these big transitions is that your world order — the way you think things work, the way you think you work, the way you think you work in the world, like, your place in the world — oftentimes it’s disrupted. And again, sometimes in a good way, but often in a kind of like, “What? I thought I had added a lot of value to this company. What? I thought you loved me.”
所以，老实说，对我来说，发现利益和理解意义之间的区别有一段时间有点模糊。但实际上，我认为，意义构建就是从认知失调中恢复过来。所以，在这些重大转变中发生的一件事是你的世界秩序——你认为事物运作的方式，你认为自己工作的方式，你认为自己在世界上的工作方式，比如，你在世界上的位置——经常被打乱。再说一次，有时是善意的，但通常是一种“什么?我以为我为公司增加了很多价值。什么？我还以为你爱我呢。”

blurry: adj.模糊不清的
dissonance: n.不一致；不调和；不和谐音
oftentimes: adv.时常地，经常地

(notes take in 2023 Aug 6 Sun)

MAUGHAN: Right. It just messes up your entire perception of self and the world.
是的。它只是扰乱了你对自我和世界的整个认知。

DUCKWORTH: Yeah. And the idea here is that it’s not just the event is bad, but the kind of like, “I don’t get it. I don’t understand. This doesn’t add up. This doesn’t make sense to me.” That itself is extremely stressful. Cognitive dissonance is an aversive state of the mind that people very quickly exit from, by the way. Like, we have all of these automatic I guess you call them “defense mechanisms” to avoid cognitive dissonance. That’s not always a good thing, because sometimes you do need to be grappling with things that don’t make sense, and you don’t want to rush to put them all back in order, because you could, you know, lose the “lesson,” as it were.
是的。这里的想法是，这不仅仅是事情很糟糕，而是有点像“我不明白。我不理解。这说不通。这对我来说没有意义。”这本身就非常有压力。顺便说一下，认知失调是一种令人厌恶的心理状态，人们会很快去摆脱这种状态。比如，我们有所有这些自动的，我猜你称之为“防御机制”，以避免认知失调。这并不总是一件好事，因为有时候你确实需要处理那些没有意义的事情，你不想急于把它们都处理好，因为你可能会失去“教训”。

dissonance: n.不一致；不调和；不和谐音
aversive: adj.反感的；嫌恶的
grappling with: 努力应对：指在面对困难或复杂问题时，尽力解决或克服。

MAUGHAN: I’m not sure I totally get it. So, let me give an example and you tell me where I’m off. My sister’s a therapist, and she talks about: often people don’t take time to feel their emotions. And she always talks about giving yourself time to mourn and you sit with the emotion for a little bit. Are you saying sit with the cognitive dissonance to try to be like, “Wow, the world doesn’t work like I thought anymore,” and then you move on, and people move on too fast?
我不确定我是否完全明白了。 所以，让我举个例子，然后你告诉我我错在哪里。我姐姐是一名心理医生，她说:人们通常不会花时间去感受自己的情绪。她总是说要给自己一点时间来emo，然后你和这种情绪共处。你是说，与认知失调共处，试着说，“哇，这个世界不再像我想象的那样运转了”，然后你继续前进，而人们的前进速度太快了?

mourn: v.悼念，哀悼；对……感到痛心（遗憾）

DUCKWORTH: Well okay, I think, eventually, you do want to make sense of things. Eventually, you need to come back to some equilibrium where, like, the world makes sense again and your place in it makes sense. So, in this study that I mentioned where in 2022, these researchers looked at stability and change of how people think of major life events, not only did they find that over time people said, “You know, more and more this has changed my worldview.” Another thing they said that changed was they found this event, in their own estimation, to be less and less extraordinary. I think one part of sense-making is realizing that most things that we experience that are stressful, when they happen, they really do feel like nobody else in the world could understand what I’m going through, because this event is so extraordinary. I felt that this past year when I had these low-lows working, as you know, Mike, on this book that I’m finding sometimes that I’m successful at working on and sometimes disastrously unsuccessful at. But when I’m having a bad day, my experience is that, like, nobody could possibly know how terrible it is to be at an impasse on a project like this. But with time and perspective I’m like, “That is ridiculous. Everybody has had the experience of being at an impasse on a project that they’ve invested a lot in.” So, I think sense-making just is what it sounds like. You’re making sense of an event that at first doesn’t make sense to you, like, feels out of the blue, improbable, extraordinary. Like, how could it happen? And when you get through the process, you put it in perspective, and you’re like, “You know, this happens to a lot of people.” It’s just coming out of this stage of cognitive dissonance and like, “I can’t figure it out. Like, this doesn’t add up.” And coming to like, “It does make sense. I can kind of move forward with a — maybe an updated worldview.”
好吧，我想，最终，你确实想弄明白事情。最终，你需要回到某种平衡状态，比如，世界重新变得有意义，你在其中的位置也变得有意义。所以，在我提到的2022年的这项研究中，这些研究人员观察了人们对重大生活事件的看法的稳定性和变化，他们不仅发现随着时间的推移，人们说，“你知道，这越来越改变了我的世界观。”他们说的另一件改变的事情是，他们发现这个事件，在他们自己的估计中，越来越不那么特别了。我认为意义构建的一部分是意识到我们经历的大多数事情都是有压力的，当它们发生时，它们真的让人觉得世界上没有其他人能理解我所经历的事情，因为这件事太不寻常了。我觉得在过去的一年里，当我在写这本书的时候，你知道的，迈克，我发现我有时写得很成功，有时写得很失败。但当我有糟糕的一天时，我的体验是，就像，没有人可能知道在这样一个项目上陷入僵局是多么糟糕。但随着时间的推移和我的看法的变化，我想，“这太荒谬了。每个人都有过在自己投入很多的项目中陷入僵局的经历。”所以，我认为意义构建就是它听起来的样子。你正在理解一件一开始对你来说没有意义的事情，就像，感觉出乎意料，不可能，不寻常。就像，这怎么可能呢?当你经历了这个过程，你就会正确地看待它，然后你就会说，“你知道，很多人都会遇到这种情况。”它只是在认知失调的阶段出现，就像，“我弄不明白。就像，这说不通。”然后就像，“这确实有道理。我可以用一种更新的世界观向前迈进。”

equilibrium: n.平衡，均衡；（心情的）平静，心理平衡；（经济）（供求的）平衡；（化）平衡；能量均分
disastrously: adv.悲惨地
impasse: n.僵局；死路
out of the blue: 突然地；意外地

(notes take in 2023 Aug 7 Mon)

MAUGHAN: Well, and it sounds like, again, the non-psychological approach is so many people just talk about: you need some perspective-giving, and some idea that “this too shall pass.” There’s this old fable that Abraham Lincoln and many others talked about over time, where this amazing, powerful king gathers all these wise men together, and he asks them to produce something that would make him happy when he is sad and sad when he is happy. Basically, something that can give perspective, in essence, to these moments so there’s no extreme emotion. And they make him a ring, and the ring just says, “This too will pass.” And it’s that idea that no matter what is happening, we get the perspective that, one, we’re not in it alone. Other people have been through this. That’s why support groups are such a, a huge piece — whether it’s patients going through cancer, or families who’ve been through a situation, or new parents have support groups. Just get with people who are going through what you’re going through, and talk about it, “Realize you’re not alone. You’re not crazy. This is hard. We can get through it together. Here’s how I did it.” And the idea that somehow we’ll get through this and there’s some level of impermanence to what we’re going through.
听起来，非心理学的方法就是很多人说的:你需要一些观点，以及一些“这一切都会过去”的想法。有一个古老的寓言亚伯拉罕·林肯和其他许多人一直在谈论这个寓言，这个神奇的，强大的国王把所有这些智者聚集在一起，他要求他们创造一些东西，让他在悲伤时快乐，在快乐时悲伤。从本质上讲，这是一种能够给这些时刻提供视角的东西，这样就不会有极端的情绪。他们给他做了一个戒指，戒指上写着:“这一切都会过去的。”正是这种想法，无论发生什么，我们都会得到这样的观点：第一，我们并不孤单。其他人也经历过这种情况。这就是支持团体如此重要的原因——无论是癌症患者，还是经历过这种情况的家庭，还是新父母都有支持团体。只要和那些正在经历你所经历的人在一起，和他们谈谈，“意识到你并不孤单。你没疯。这很难。我们可以一起度过难关。我是这样做的。”我们总有办法度过难关，我们所经历的是某种程度上的无常。

this too shall pass: 这也将过去：表示目前的困难或不愉快的情况终将结束，鼓励人们保持乐观。
This too will pass: 这一切都会过去的。
basically: adv.基本上，大体上；从根本上说，总的说来
impermanence: n.无常；暂时性

DUCKWORTH: It sounds better if you say “This too shall pass.” I mean, if I were going to get a ring, I would not say “This too will pass.” I would be like, I’m going to pay, you know, two dollars more and get, like, “This too shall pass.”
如果你说“这一切都会过去的”听起来会更好。我的意思是，如果我要得到一个戒指，我不会说“这也会过去的。”我会说，我要多付两美元，然后我就会想，“这也会过去的。”

MAUGHAN: Okay. Can I add one last thing that I think is super interesting. So, Bruce Feiler, who wrote this book about lifequakes and major transitions, one of his major points was that you have to own your own story. You have to write your own story. And it goes back to sort of maybe this idea of sense-making, but he basically just says it’s a meaning-making exercise where you kind of take what happened to you, revise it, and retell your life story to yourself. At Qualtrics, we always tell people, “Go write a press release about where you’re going to be five years from now, or 10 years from now, or when this project is through. Write the press release as to what the end result will be, and then drive toward that.” And one of the things that was most impressive to me, a few years back now, Monica Lewinsky did a TEDTalk and just said, “Hey, look, I’m coming back out into the public sphere, because for the last however many years, I’ve let everybody else write my story and tell my story, and for me to get over what’s happened to me, it’s my turn to own my own story.” And Feiler talked about, again, the people who control the stories of their own transition are so much healthier and able to process what happened to them and define it in these good ways that you talked about — this benefit-finding, this sense-making — and just say, “I’m going to own my own story. I get to tell it my way, and I get to create the life that I want out of whatever the transition was that either I chose or that happened to me.” And I love this idea.
好的。 我可以添加最后一件我认为非常有趣的事情吗？ 因此，布鲁斯·费勒（Bruce Feiler）写了这本关于生命地震和重大转变的书，他的主要观点之一是你必须拥有自己的故事。 你必须写你自己的故事。 这可能可以追溯到某种意义上的意义建构的想法，但他基本上只是说这是一种意义建构的练习，你可以接受发生在你身上的事情，修改它，然后向自己复述你的生活故事。在Qualtrics，我们总是告诉人们，“去写一篇新闻稿，说明你从现在起5年，或10年后，或者当这个项目完成时，你会在哪里。写一篇关于最终结果的新闻稿，然后朝着这个方向努力。”其中最让我印象深刻的一件事是，几年前，莫妮卡·莱温斯基做了一个ted演讲，她说:“嘿，看，我要回到公共领域了，因为在过去的多少年里，我让其他人写我的故事，讲述我的故事，对我来说，过去发生在我身上的事，现在轮到我拥有自己的故事了。”费勒再次谈到，那些控制自己转变的人更健康，能够处理发生在他们身上的事情，并以你所说的这些好的方式来定义它——这种发现好处的方式，这种创造意义的方式——然后说，“我要拥有自己的故事。我可以用自己的方式来讲述，我可以从我选择的或发生在我身上的转变中创造出我想要的生活。”我喜欢这个想法。

press release: 新闻稿；通讯稿
sphere: n.（活动、兴趣、专业知识的）范围，领域；球体，球，球形；社会阶层；势力范围；<文>苍穹，天，天空；<文>天体；天体外壳；地球仪
get to do sth: 有机会做某事：指有机会或得到许可去做某事

(notes take in 2023 Aug 8 Tue)

DUCKWORTH: Mike, I love this idea too, and before we finish with, um, Russell’s question, I do want to say something else about these life transitions and especially, you know, since you and I were both talking about our moving stories. Recently, Jason and I moved from the suburbs — I’m not going to call it “Filthadelphia” — from the suburbs of the City of Brotherly Love into the Center City area of the City of Brotherly Love. There is something with that in particular that I want to say is a pretty sturdy recommendation I can make based on psychological science, and that is that when you are in charge of the life event, like moving, you should move to be where people live who are living a life that you want to live.
迈克，我也喜欢这个想法，在我们结束拉塞尔的问题之前，我想说一些关于人生转变的其他事情，尤其是，你知道，因为你和我都在谈论我们的搬家故事。最近，杰森和我从郊区——我不打算叫它“费城”——从兄弟之爱之城的郊区搬到了兄弟之爱之城的中心城区。我特别想说的是，这是一个基于心理科学的非常有力的建议，那就是当你负责生活事件时，比如搬家，你应该搬到那些过着你想要的生活的人住的地方。

finish with: 结束；与......断绝关系：表示结束与某人或某事的关系，不再与之有任何联系。

MAUGHAN: So, surround yourself with, like, aspirational people?
所以，你周围都是些有抱负的人?

aspirational: adj.有雄心壮志的；（生活形态等）梦寐以求的 n.成功指南；处世自助手册

DUCKWORTH: You know, like, if you want to be more outdoorsy, go and be somewhere where everybody’s being outdoorsy. If you want to be the kind of person who goes to museums and, like, public library readings, go somewhere where people are doing that. I know this in some ways is so blindingly obvious that you don’t need a recommendation, but for a long time, social scientists wondered whether when you found little pockets — like, famously people are really happy — I think Fresno, California is, like, the happiest city in America. Well, according to survey research — and happiness is pretty hard to measure in any other way than just asking people.
你知道，如果你想更喜欢户外活动，那就去每个人都喜欢户外活动的地方。如果你想成为那种去博物馆和公共图书馆阅读的人，那就去那些人们这样做的地方。我知道这在某种程度上是显而易见的，你不需要推荐，但很长一段时间以来，社会科学家想知道，当你发现小组织时——比如，众所周知，人们真的很快乐——我认为加州弗雷斯诺是美国最快乐的城市。根据调查研究，幸福很难用其他方式来衡量，只能问别人。

pocket: n.衣袋，口袋；钱财，财力；（附在某物上的）小口袋，小容器；<南非>（用作贸易计量的）（农产品）袋；（与周围不同的）小群体，小区域；（台球）网袋，球袋；岩石或地层中充满矿石或其他物质的空洞

MAUGHAN: We got to figure out what’s in the water in Fresno.
我们得弄清楚弗雷斯诺的水里有什么

DUCKWORTH: They have very low crime. They have great schools. It’s economically booming. It’s in California, so it’s got really nice weather for the most part. So, one of the things I would say about maybe moving in particular, maybe this doesn’t apply to all of these life transitions, is, like, when you can take charge of this event and make it happen, and not only control how you manage it, but actually create the transition itself, I think the thing that people fail to do is what social science has now affirmed, because there are these research studies — I’ll tell you about one of them — which is that it actually does change your life. So, social scientists were like, “Well, when you find all these happy people in Fresno, maybe Fresno does something to you. Like, when you move there, it actually changes your level of happiness. But maybe it’s just that the kind of person who moves to Fresno was already happy,” right? We would call that, like, a selection effect.
他们的犯罪率很低。他们有很棒的学校。经济正在蓬勃发展。它在加州，所以大部分地区的天气都很好。因此，我要说的一件事可能是特别是搬家，也许这并不适用于所有这些生活转变，就像，当你可以负责这个事件并使其发生时，而不仅仅是控制如何 你管理它，但实际上创造了转变本身，我认为人们未能做到的事情是社会科学现在已经确认的，因为有这些研究——我会告诉你其中之一——这实际上是 确实改变了你的生活。所以，社会科学家们说，“当你在弗雷斯诺发现这么多快乐的人，也许弗雷斯诺对你有什么影响。比如，当你搬到那里时，它实际上改变了你的幸福水平。但也许只是那种搬到弗雷斯诺的人已经很快乐了，对吧?我们称之为选择效应。

MAUGHAN: So, not necessarily causal.
所以，不一定是因果关系。

causal: adj.因果关系的，构成原因的；（连接词）表示原因的；由某种原因引起的 n.表示原因的连词

DUCKWORTH: Exactly. So, anytime you find these geographic patterns, like, “People weigh more here, they exercise more there, they have more education over here,” social scientists skeptically would wonder whether it’s just a selection effect. It’s like, “Ah, but all those people tend to flock there, but it’s nothing causal.” But the evidence suggests that it’s both. And here’s the clever study that shows it — this type of study. So, the military in particular basically randomly assigns people to where they’re going to go. In other words, out of fairness, when you have a soldier who’s going to have to move from, you know, training to a military base, for example, you don’t actually ask the soldier and their family where they want to go. There’s kind of a flip of the coin. Like, of these 12 military bases, you’re going to have to go to one and so are the other people in your class, but we’re not going to let you choose. And that creates a natural experiment. Was the effect of the move influential on their health, on their weight? And the answer is yes, it is. When people are forced to move somewhere — so, it wasn’t their choice — they actually start looking like the people who live there. For example, if you move somewhere where people are generally a healthier weight, you start to be the weight that the people are. And there are some nuances, and this doesn’t always happen, and sometimes there’s reactance.
完全正确。所以，每当你发现这些地理模式，比如，“这里的人体重更重，那里的人锻炼得更多，这里的人受教育程度更高”，社会科学家就会怀疑这是否只是一种选择效应。就像，“啊，但所有那些人都倾向于聚集在那里，但这不是因果关系。”但证据表明两者都有。这个聪明的研究证明了这一点——这类研究。所以，军队基本上是随机分配人员到他们要去的地方。换句话说，出于公平考虑，当你有一名士兵要从训练中搬到军事基地时，你实际上不会问士兵和他们的家人他们想去哪里。就像抛硬币一样。比如，在这12个军事基地中，你必须去一个，你班上的其他人也必须去一个，但我们不会让你选择。这就形成了一个自然的实验。这一举动对他们的健康和体重有影响吗?答案是肯定的。当人们被迫搬到某个地方时——所以，这不是他们的选择——他们实际上开始看起来像住在那里的人。例如，如果你搬到一个人们通常体重更健康的地方，你的体重就会开始和那里的人一样。有一些细微的差别，这并不总是会发生，有时会有抗拒。

flock: v.群集，蜂拥
nuances: 细微差别
reactance: n.[电] 电抗；感应抵抗
(notes take in 2023 Aug 9 Wed)

MAUGHAN: I gotta find a place with skinny people.
我得找个有瘦子的地方住。

skinny: adj.极瘦的，皮包骨的；（衣服）紧身的；<非正式>低脂肪的，加脱脂奶的

DUCKWORTH: Well, you know, I am sure Utah — I don’t want to say that, like, everybody in Utah is mountain biking all the time. But, you know, if you were going to try to be in a healthy place, I think Utah would be good — but at the same time I want to say, you go on these 100-mile bike rides.
嗯，你知道，我肯定犹他州——我不想说，犹他州的每个人都一直在骑山地自行车。但是，你知道，如果你想去一个健康的地方，我认为犹他州会很好——但同时我想说，你可以骑100英里的自行车。

go on: 1、继续：表示持续进行某个动作或活动。2、发生：表示某个事件正在进行。3、进行：表示某个过程正在进行中。

MAUGHAN: I do 100-mile bike rides. I climb tall mountains. Okay. So, Angela, we’ve talked about so many different concepts today. When you think about this question of how to deal with big life changes, if you were to tell your younger self when you’re moving from West Philadelphia, born and raised, to East Philadelphia —.
我骑100英里的自行车。我爬高山。好吧。安吉拉，我们今天已经讨论了很多不同的概念。当你思考如何应对生活中的重大变化时，如果你告诉年轻时的自己当你从西费城搬到东费城时。

DUCKWORTH: West Cherry Hill to East Cherry Hill! Very different.
西樱桃山到东樱桃山!非常不同的。

MAUGHAN: I had to bring in a little Will Smith Fresh Prince of Bel Air, right? But if you’re moving, or going through one of these big transitions, and you had to give yourself some advice to how to get through that better, what would you summarize and say, “Hey, this, Angela, is what I wish I had known.” Or “Mike, if you’re moving to Utah in this non-committal, awful way that you did,” how would you tell me to do it a little bit differently? A little bit better?
我还得找个威尔·史密斯，贝莱尔的新鲜王子?但如果你正在搬家，或者正在经历一个重大的转变，你必须给自己一些建议，告诉自己如何更好地度过这个阶段，你会总结什么，然后说:“嘿，安吉拉，这是我希望我能知道的。”或者“迈克，如果你要搬去犹他州，就像你做的那样，模棱两可，很糟糕”，你会怎么告诉我，要做得稍微不同一点?好一点了吗?

non-committal: adj.不作承诺的；含糊不清的

DUCKWORTH: Well, Russell did ask about the biggest life changes we’ve dealt with and how we felt before and after, and I talked about this move in third grade. Before we moved I thought, “Oh no, this is going to be terrible. How is this happening? Nobody moves in the middle of third grade. That can’t happen to anyone.” I think, just like in the research study, I eventually met other kids for whom similar things had, you know, happened to them. That they also had to move. They also had to make new friends. This now makes sense. It’s not an extraordinary event. This is a story that doesn’t necessarily have a bad ending. It can have a very happy ending. So, I would say, in sum, that in every life there’s a life transition. In fact, more than one. And I think, you know, both that journalist’s book and this scientific research and our personal experience, Mike, says: find a benefit, make sense, and making the best of it — I guess as cliche as that is, it’s true. And I think it’s possible.
拉塞尔确实问了我们经历过的最大的人生变化以及我们在经历前后的感受，我也谈到了三年级搬家的事。在我们搬家之前，我想，“哦，不，这将是可怕的。这是怎么发生的?没人会在三年级的时候搬家。这不会发生在任何人身上。”我想，就像在研究中一样，我最终遇到了其他孩子，他们也发生了类似的事情。他们也必须搬家。他们还必须结交新朋友。这就说得通了。这不是什么特别的事件。这是一个不一定有坏结局的故事。 它可以有一个非常幸福的结局。 所以，总而言之，我想说，每个人的一生都会有一个人生转变。 事实上，不止一个。 我认为，无论是那本记者的书还是这项科学研究以及我们的个人经验，迈克都说：找到好处，找到意义，并充分利用它——我想尽管这是陈词滥调，但这是真的。 我认为这是可能的。

cliche: n.陈词滥调；使用陈词滥调；平庸之人；平庸之物；[印刷] <主英>铅版，铅版印刷；电版，电版印刷物

MAUGHAN: And my advice is just: move to Fresno.
我的建议是:搬到弗雷斯诺去。

(notes take in 2023 Aug 10 Thu)